By Doug
Some
of the recent comments on Pam's cheating post focused on centerboards. I
have some very strong opinions on this.
When
I first arrived in Sydney Sydney
One
of Frank's first overseas clients was a Tornado sailor in Hawaii
The Starboard Products logo (drawn from memory) shows Frank's belief that sailing is really
about two foils - one in the air and one in the water. It was a great logo
because it showed the importance of what very few people at the time knew -
what's under the boat is just as
important as what's on top.
Sadly,
wooden foils were phased out in the late 80's. At the 1992 US Laser Masters,
one of the competitors brought along wooden foils that were in pretty bad
shape. But I knew that Frank could restore them, so I traded my new white foils
for the old wooden ones (the guy thought I was nuts). Off they went to Sydney , Frank restored them (with notes assuring me that
the shape had not been altered), and Mark brought them to the 1993 Master
Worlds in New Zealand
And
then someone objected, saying that this would give me an unfair advantage. I
thought, how can this be? Everything was from an authorized builder and the
foils were restored to their original shape. Jeff Martin's decision was that he
could not prevent someone from protesting me, so I decided to sail the Worlds using the rudder and CB supplied with the charter boat. My gorgeous wooden blades have a sentimental value but have never been used at a national or Worlds competition.
People must have had some pretty strong feelings because after the Kiwi Worlds, the
class added a rule stating that a wooden rudder or CB could not be used on
boats manufactured after a certain date. I have never understood this because they perform the same and its
easier to alter painted blades.
Fast
forward to another national championship, where a good US
On
shore, I asked this fellow how he did it. He just smiled and said, "it's the
centerboard." He explained that he had borrowed this tricked-out CB from a
very well-known NA sailor and it made all the difference. This was my first
exposure to altered CB's. All I know is there appears to be more than one way to make them faster and it costs at least $500. I have since seen them used at national and Worlds
events, but people don't like to talk about it. The closest explanation I ever
got was "if you want to win, you have to have one."
The
Aussie Laser that I bought 3 years ago came with the brown CB and rudder (these now come painted white). While I do not understand the reason the manufacturing
process was changed, I liked the brown boards because they would be nearly impossible to alter.
And
I disagree with those who think that you need a cheater CB to win. I've won two Master Worlds and, with some hard work and a little luck, look forward to maybe doing it again.
Hear hear!! Great post Doug. I have no doubts that well made wooden foils for a Laser would be vastly superior, and from the few I've seen, they were very well made. For one thing, they are much lighter and have more positive buoyancy. I have read that the current rudder assembly has negative buoyancy, but a wooden rudder blade assembly has a positive one. The Laser would definitely benefit from extra buoyancy at the transom.
ReplyDeleteI have made a few sets of foils for other boats, the last being for my Goat Island Skiff. These foils are made to a NACA section from strips of Paulownia, a very stable, low density timber and then covered with glass. They weigh almost nothing by comparison to the Laser foil, even though they are somewhat bigger. The performance they give the GIS is astounding and I've no doubt that similar foils would enhance the Laser's performance considerably also.
I am intrigued by your story about the drafting, enhanced by his special CB. I can believe it.
The Laser foils were changed to improve the manufacturing process, the durability and quality. The old ones had steel reinforcing and I'm sure you've seen what happens to some of them that have begun to rust? However, the new ones are still manufactured to the same weight tolerance so that the old boards are not made redundant. I still use the old type foils as they are in pretty good condition and I cannot justify the cost of new ones for the sake of it. That's really what "One Design" is all about, isn't it?
Pleased to hear the new foils are the same weight (within tolerances) as the old ones. At a gathering of Laser sailors on Sunday, one fellow was expressing the view that the new foils are significantly different in weight from the old ones. I found that hard to believe but didn't say anything as I haven't tested them myself. (Maybe he had been comparing new ones with old "tricked out" ones?)
ReplyDeleteWait, wait, wait! I'm a little slow. Are the "new" blades (and I'm really not sure what new means) essentially as good or better than the "tricked out" blades? Or are the new blades still not as good as the tricked out blades? And what exactly is done to the tricked out blades? Doug is of the opinion that weight isn't a factor that would make a difference. Both float when in the water so even a 2 pound difference wouldn't make much difference in performance. He thought the tricked out blades were not only made of a different material but were shaped differently. The measuring at events is to simply slide the centerboard into a slot to confirm that no part of the board is wider than the the slot but the exact placement of the widest point of the centerboard isn't measured and Doug felt that movement of that point could definitely affect performance. But he has just pieced together overheard conversations over the years to form that opinion. Does anyone actually know what is being done to the tricked out blades and whether it provides an advantage at the top of the fleet against the "new" blades straight from the manufacturer?
ReplyDeleteIf people are paying more than $500, they must be getting an advantage. We need to stamp out this abuse. Protest if you see it.
ReplyDeleteWhoa! If some people are not simply tweaking their foils in accordance with what is allowed under the Rules and are using non genuine foils, of course they should be protested as this is blatant cheating. This is unacceptable has to be stamped out as cheating is against the Laser class rules too. Now that this is on the table so to speak, I've seen some stuff at regattas that has struck me as rather weird, but I thought it was just a serious over-the-top case of caring for his foils. In this case the foils went straight into the bag and into the car after the race, before de-rigging. I did not see the foils until the boat was launched when they came out of the car immediately before launching. In other words, the foils were not visible the cockpit (or under the boat out of the sun) like all the other boats around the park. I really did not give it much thought until now as I did not think that cheating went on in Masters Lasers. I could still be wrong and this sailor could just be a nutter about his equipment, but it makes me think!
ReplyDeleteAs for Doug discounting the effect of weight on the foils, offer him the choice of two Lasers. One Laser weighs 57kg and the other weighs 100kg. Archimedes principle applies, both Lasers float but the displacement is a lot different :)
If the rules didn't matter, there are a lot of things that could be done to improve the performance of the Laser's foils. A few such mods would be:
*Reducing the thickness of the foil to decrease drag
*Taper the thickness from top to bottom
*Change the position of the thickest part of the foil. This could even vary along the length of the board
*Change the stiffness of the board. Designing in some flex so that the boat heels less in a gust, but as the board straightens, it squirts the boat forwards
*making the centreboard "gybe" so that the angle of attack changes and lifts the boat to windward. This works in some classes, but not others.
*making the board thinner at the waterline than at the tip would provide flex and the extra thickness at the bottom provides more lift.
*Making the foils as light as possible
There are probably other things but I can't think straight right now as the effects of a glass of RED are taking hold!
You and Doug must have been at the same regatta with the "weird" behavior. It's pretty hard to protest another over a suspicion. The change would have to come in the measuring process.
DeleteSadly, the suspected offenders are predominately US sailors. If you are traveling to an event outside of your country, why would you incur the cost and risk of damage in transporting your blades if they didn't provide you with some advantage over the brand new ones that come with the charter boat? But who is going to keep track of whether you measured in your blades or the charter blades, unless the tricked out blades wouldn't measure in.
The use of tricked out blades won't stop until the measuring process is changed to spot the difference, be it weight, point of thickness or any of the other things you mentioned that would make them better. And if the difference can't be spotted in the measuring in process, then you can only point toward suspicious behavior. Not enough to win a protest.
More spot checks of boats coming off the water might be in order to discourage substitution of equipment. It's pretty sad if this is what's going on.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, the builder's weight tolerance for the centreboard is 4.43kg to 4.86kg. I am told that the new foils have the weight stamped on them.
I don't think substitution is the issue. I think the tricked out blades measure in and the weight isn't suspect.
DeleteWow you guys are pretty right on, Oztayls hit it out of the park. In the end technology and money is really what it comes down to, of course knowledge and experience falls under the money part of it. Now imagine having your own cnc table and the ability to really play with shapes and then materials.
ReplyDeleteThese foils are made to a NACA section from strips of Paulownia, a very stable, low density timber and then covered with glass. They weigh almost nothing by comparison to the Laser foil, even though they are somewhat bigger. The performance they give the GIS is astounding and I've no doubt that similar foils would enhance the Laser's performance considerably also.
ReplyDeleteCould this be a version of poorman's Sitka?? Maybe even better.
I've heard the tricked out blades are being used at the highest level in both the masters and open fleets. Certainly our new ILCA President must be aware of the issue since he's plays at that level. It begs the question, if the powers that be know about this and have done nothing to change the measuring requiremetns to stop it, are they, through inaction, making the statement that the tricked out blades are in fact legal?
ReplyDeleteThat would seem to be what the decision is.
DeleteThe "tricked out" blades I'm aware of have been sent to the usual places people send their keelboats for having the bottoms done. The blades go in as the usual "old" blades, often damaged (trailing tip, waterline chip, etc), and come out pristine. They are repaired where damaged, and "recoated".
ReplyDeleteThe "profile" looks the same, so I don't know if the shape is changed in the process. Certainly, they pass Laser Class inspections (fit the template).
The "paint" or "coat" sure seems more durable/harder than standard, but I believe that's allowed under "painting".
I haven't heard of anyone having this done since the new GRP boards (white, not natural) have been available. Folks just buy the new ones.
Water friction is less on a surface painted vs gelcoated. It maybe an advantage.
ReplyDeleteWeird stuff happens at the molecular level and the boundary layer that attaches to the surface. I haven't read up on the latest thinking, but it can do your head in. Anyway, in our class paint doesn't really matter. Much more important to concentrate on boat handling, trim, fitness, tactics and what the wind is doing!
ReplyDelete"Water friction is less on a surface painted vs gelcoated. It maybe an advantage."
ReplyDeleteNot always. If the painted surface is left as sprayed it is actually sticky in the water. A sanded gelcoat at say 1500 to 1800 grit is faster / less sticky than a polished or waxed painted surface.
Blades can be fabricated with lateral strips that actually change the angle of the centerline of the blade relative to the centerline of the boat. If done correctly a flexing centerboard could twist to weather adding significant lift almost like a second rudder.
A very good friend ran a America's cup support team, he swore that faired paint was always faster then gelcoat. Both needed to be faired but the paint was faster.
DeleteHi Lindy, this is known a gybing centreboard, which I mentioned above. In some classes they are quite legal. We used them in Dabchicks (a small 12' scow) in the late 60's, but whether they actually worked was very much a debate.
ReplyDeleteThanks! This post contains very significant ideas and facts that every reader should be followed. Great idea indeed.
ReplyDelete